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[6] From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@yahoo.com Date: Mon Aug 15, 2005 Subject: Re: [indiathinkersnet] Freedom is not 'Free For All' parvez1942 REQUIRED : Jihad against lack of Civic Sence, Self Dicipline, Greed, Lust, Sloth & Apathy. "Arif N. Khan" <ank2000pk@... wrote: Freedom is not 'Free For All' After 58 years of independence, poverty and ignorance continue to be prevalent in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Yes the literacy rate has more than doubled but still almost 50% population remains illiterate. ------------------------------- [6] From: Regi P George <george_regi@yahoo.com Date: Mon Aug 15, 2005 Subject: Police and the missing leads State police and the missing leads Police and the missing leads State police and the missing leads Anand Haridas STATETRENDS A team with diverse professional skills will help improve the quality of investigations The use of muscle power by private financiers, land sharks, liquor lobbies and sand mafia is on the rise in Kerala. There have been instances galore of the police remaining a passive spectator to the nexus between the underworld and the moneybags. And, on not too few occasions, police personnel have been found to be colluding with the powerful lobbies. .... ...... http://www.hindu.com/2005/08/15/stories/2005081506520500.htm =============================== [7] Women's Centre" <womcentr@bom7.vsnl.net.in Re: Fwd : Viji on 'shocked' 1) Dear Samir Khericha, I thank you for your appreciation, as well as the clarification about adoption and Islam. However, 1) in India, Christians and Muslims can 'adopt' only under the Guardian & Wards Act, where you are the guardian, but not the legal parent, as is the case with a law for adoption. 2) Several years back, when some of us from the women's movement were campaigning for reform and change in the Christian Personal Laws which had not changed for a 125 years by even a word, we also asked for an adoption law. Personally, I was in favour of a general law of Adoption for Indians, as an enabling law for any citizeness. But I was told at that time, that Muslims in India do not 'believe in' adoption and do not want a general law, so stick to asking for Christians. That is how this impression came about; apart from the fact that the Muslim community in India has not asked for an adoption law, to my knowledge. But of course, those who speak on behalf of any community, have their own perspectives and agenda. And given the diversity in every religious group, they can hardly be called communities in one sense. They are knit together, temporarily for varying periods of time, because of percieved and propagated wrongs; that is, politically. Those feminists like myself, (ie, who are more or less out of our own religions/communities, but sensitive to discrimination against/periodic oppression of various minorities), have tried to pay attention to general demands of women from different backgrounds, and tried to push reforms in family laws forward. Not having a general adoption law IS a discrimination, I believe. And it is not the only one. ---------------------- (2) To: Mukul Dubey Dear MD, To say there is no Humanity is very cynical; but I do believe what someone or the other is supposed to have said ; that every cynic is a disappointed idealist. So I take your posting seriously. Of course, there is humanity, without which there would be no concept of inhumanity. Nor of Human Rights - which are asserted, in the mental construct of a universal courtroom of Humanity - as species, essence and possibility. There is also specificity, of DNA, gender, economy, era, other cultural factors and so on. (Culture defined as a way of life, which has many factors, besides religion and some of them more fundamental than religion). There is also individuality, which is what you meant by 'you & I', I presumed. An individual/some individuals, may rise above all specificity, to become one with the Universal. Like Gautama Buddha, for example. If one does not grant the universality of humanity and human rights, how can one possibly ask for specific rights? To ask for one's own rights is to ask for all. Logically speaking. Even if the contention of rights on various levels makes it appear as if there is no universality. There is really no contradiction between universality of Human Rights, and specificity of HR violations; individual violations, or community violations. The latter is based on the former. (2. a) You wrote: "As for kids, there is a way out, not that it always works: grab any you can and make them yours for the duration." Well, such criminal activities as grabbing kids and running etc, I leave to people like you, MD, whoever you are. After the grabbing, hope you do not give them the same 'good' treatment as was given to the Muslim children of Gujarat, in 2002. Like knifing them; and bashing the heads of 3 year olds against rocks; Delivering them by cutting open the tummies of their Moms etc. All in the interest of 'Purification' presumably. Or is it assertion of human rights? Regards, AA ----------------------------- (3) To: Venkitesh(Viji) "In order to have credibility you have to report on atrocities on all peoples, not just Christians. If I were to believe you, there should not be any human rights for Hindus, it is only mean for Christians". Sure, to the first sentence. That is the meaning of the universality of human rights. But human rights are not defined only by religion, or community or caste or gender. There are different classes of Human rights. I do not know what is meant by the second sentence. I think what I wrote does not imply any such thing. Insisting that it does, can only mean that you do not expect/want anyone without a Hindu name or surname to be capable of justice and non-biased perspectives, unless they are criticising the religious community implied by the name. ie, you grant to anyone with a minority name or surname only the right to criticize their own communities - of which I have done more than enough, Venkitesh or Viji. Have worked with very different sections of the people, class-wise and community-wise. Criticised my own community even as late as the beginning of the NDA regime, while working for family law reforms. Or even more recently, on women's right to abortion. One's criticisms and interventions are partly determined by the issue at hand; one cannot keep on repeating one's entire world view in each and every instance. (Like Muslims here are expected to dash out and demonstrate each time some Muslim somewhere terrorises someone; same thing for Christians, when any Christian fundoo in the US says something). Have recently sailed into and criticised the AIMPLB and all those who insist on sacrificing women's rights for cultural relativism. The Women's Centre's statement during the Imrana episode was not posted on this list; or on any list other than women's groups' lists; that is hardly my fault. There is an idea prevalent among some that only Hindus are capable of universality. This was not so till the mid-1980s actually; and those of us who worked in various movements never paid the least attention to each other's religion of birth. Its a sad thing that things have changed to such an extent. But not all born Hindus are of the same framework of the mind. So, I will not treat all 'Hindus' the same, despite such prejudices on your part. Regards, to you too. I think I shall leave it at that; since I do not really have anything to say to Nitya Ananad, except that I do not monitor religion specific websites, since it is not my/our concern. Spreading of communal hatred is, however, a cause for major concern. Apart from women's rights, that is. Ammu Abraham --------------------- 1) Aug. 12th, 4.09 Hello Abraham, Well written and well thought article. I liked your take on " Sare Jahan" and Vande Matram. Very Stingy. I would like to make one correction on your statement of Muslim not allowing adoption. Prophet himself had an adopted son Zaid and I know couple of Muslims who have adopted children although there are some windy rules on how to go about bringing him up but adoption is for sure legal. samir ------------- 2) Aug. 13th, 2.42 am No such thing as humanity, AA: only you and me, different species. No such thing as universal good: just your bad, which you foolishly call good, and my good, which is of course the only good. As for kids, there is a way out, not that it always works: grab any you can and make them yours for the duration. MD ---------------------------- 3) Aug. 13th, 10.32am In order to have credibility you have to report on atrocities on all peoples, not just Christians. If I were to believe you, there should not be any human rights for Hindus, it is only mean for Christians. Christians have commited the most heineous crimes in the name of religion throughout history -- they have destroyed thousands of cultures -- American Indians, Hawaiians, Aborigines in Australia, South America -- they destroyed and pillaged and decimated these people. The people of Africa are one of the most ompoverished and oppressed lot since the coming of Christianity. So please, this group does need any sermons from you. Members are smart enough to find out what is happening. Venkitesh (Viji) ---------------------- 4) Aug. 13th, 11.10am Wow, Interesting reply. Maybe we should pray for india. Nithya How To Pray For India India Revival http://India.thechurchzone.com Pray For India:............................... 1. Pray for a Christian Marketplace army to be rise up. Etc..... ============================= |
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